I was one of these kiddos, and tested so high but so young that CTY wouldn't take me. By the time it would have I was at university and had no need for them. I am not in the 12.5%, but I have built the life I want, with lots of space for me to learn or work on what I want when I want despite real challenges.
If every academic program was considered successful only if vast majority of its pupils were "eminent" then we would have a very poor academic system. I think this article, like much of our culture has a big problem with an elitist mindset when considering gifted people.
What man does not understand, he fears; and what he fears, he tends to destroy. - Yeats
Thanks Michelle, for your very thoughtful article. Your (E’s) journey has been more helpful than you realize for my daughter and I. Trying to get educators to understand that it isn’t her grades but how she processes and learns. Her executive function is not amazing and now at 16 she’s in her second year of Uni after our world school trip (22 countries and 19 months), she expanded her transcript with that richness rather than graduating that early (she was ready to graduate at 12), but we delayed it and gave her time for social, cultural, practical learning which helps her psychological development and her groundedness in herself. Thank you for being such a strong voice in this space.
I love, love, love the life and opportunities you have brought your daughter. The experiences you’ve given here will no doubt be with her for a very long time. So enriching, so personalized, so perfect! I know it’s been hard work, but huge kudos to you for all the work you put in, too!
Replacements for the word "gifted" is an interesting topic. If "advanced learner" is potentially misleading, perhaps something like "advanced pace learner" would be more accurate?
The journal Gifted Education International had a whole issue on this topic (see https://journals.sagepub.com/toc/geia/38/3). Unfortunately, most of the articles are paywalled, but one open-access article advocated using the phrase "students with advanced learning needs".
Thanks, Michelle, for such a well-worded rebuttal.
A telling anecdote about CTY: they initially didn’t think they could give J the SET qualification he had earned through the SAT at age 9, because he met the 5th-grade SET standards in both Math and Verbal while officially still a 4th grader. I had to advance his official grade level a few months earlier than planned just to resolve the conundrum for them.
And that’s on top of the fact that most programs academically appropriate for him exclude him by age cutoff. When programs make it policy to cut off true outliers, what remains is much easier to reclassify as “advanced learners.”
Great article: I tested CTY for verbal in 8th grade. I was in the NYC systems. but I want to present to you the other side. I think these gifted programs, as run in NYC, were horrible. Fixing them is not just about inequality and racism and whatever, it is a moral need. I explain why here:
Thank you for sharing this. I read the entire piece, and I agree. That’s exactly my point. ☺️
Your story isn’t evidence that giftedness isn’t real. If anything, it illustrates how imperfect identification systems are. In your situation, the problem wasn’t that giftedness didn’t exist as the original article asks. The problem was that a gifted child was missed.
I also agree that every child deserves a safe, engaging education. This has been my soapbox for years, but only so much room in one article for me to discuss. No child should have to earn access to basic educational quality, enrichment, or physical safety through a test score or score alone. That’s a failure of the system that needs to be overhauled.
Where my article differs is that it was focused on the reality of giftedness itself. I was responding to the growing tendency to treat giftedness as privilege, achievement, or opportunity. Your story highlights many of my same points - gifted children can be overlooked, that testing is imperfect, and that many schools fail children who don’t fit neatly into the categories we’ve created.
I don’t see your experience as contradicting my point. I see it as expanding it. A flawed identification system doesn’t mean giftedness isn’t real. It means we need to get better at recognizing it while also ensuring that every child, regardless of label, has access to a quality education.(my pledge to the mayor)
Thank you for sharing your perspective! Your description of what it felt like to be that child was powerful and an important part of the conversation.
Thank you. I see your point and anticipated your criticism. My viewpoint is more so, a catholic system, will help more children. I am agnostic as to whether we can ever truly find all the gifted kids. Some do not mature early. Some children don’t want to try on IQ tests. But if we offer enrichment to more kids, they might suprise us and self select into what they enjoy. I think we should do more of that.
I agree that kids need access to material they enjoy; but I wonder if our gifted system just incentivizes the worst ills.
For example, if you say one child is gifted but another is average; talented teachers often get excited about teaching the gifted kids not the average ones.
The gifted label itself worries me because I think it can become an identity, and when that kid struggles, they can’t overcome it.
What was so special about my catholic education for me, is that they didn’t think I was that special. No one looked at me and thought “wow”. Instead, they educated me, challenged and taught me that hard work was important. That is a wonderful message to teach children.
Anyway, thank you, it is a pleasure to talk to you. I’m flattered that you enjoyed my piece.
I was one of these kiddos, and tested so high but so young that CTY wouldn't take me. By the time it would have I was at university and had no need for them. I am not in the 12.5%, but I have built the life I want, with lots of space for me to learn or work on what I want when I want despite real challenges.
If every academic program was considered successful only if vast majority of its pupils were "eminent" then we would have a very poor academic system. I think this article, like much of our culture has a big problem with an elitist mindset when considering gifted people.
What man does not understand, he fears; and what he fears, he tends to destroy. - Yeats
💯!! Thanks for your comment. I completely agree.
Thanks Michelle, for your very thoughtful article. Your (E’s) journey has been more helpful than you realize for my daughter and I. Trying to get educators to understand that it isn’t her grades but how she processes and learns. Her executive function is not amazing and now at 16 she’s in her second year of Uni after our world school trip (22 countries and 19 months), she expanded her transcript with that richness rather than graduating that early (she was ready to graduate at 12), but we delayed it and gave her time for social, cultural, practical learning which helps her psychological development and her groundedness in herself. Thank you for being such a strong voice in this space.
I love, love, love the life and opportunities you have brought your daughter. The experiences you’ve given here will no doubt be with her for a very long time. So enriching, so personalized, so perfect! I know it’s been hard work, but huge kudos to you for all the work you put in, too!
Replacements for the word "gifted" is an interesting topic. If "advanced learner" is potentially misleading, perhaps something like "advanced pace learner" would be more accurate?
The journal Gifted Education International had a whole issue on this topic (see https://journals.sagepub.com/toc/geia/38/3). Unfortunately, most of the articles are paywalled, but one open-access article advocated using the phrase "students with advanced learning needs".
Thanks, Michelle, for such a well-worded rebuttal.
A telling anecdote about CTY: they initially didn’t think they could give J the SET qualification he had earned through the SAT at age 9, because he met the 5th-grade SET standards in both Math and Verbal while officially still a 4th grader. I had to advance his official grade level a few months earlier than planned just to resolve the conundrum for them.
And that’s on top of the fact that most programs academically appropriate for him exclude him by age cutoff. When programs make it policy to cut off true outliers, what remains is much easier to reclassify as “advanced learners.”
Great article: I tested CTY for verbal in 8th grade. I was in the NYC systems. but I want to present to you the other side. I think these gifted programs, as run in NYC, were horrible. Fixing them is not just about inequality and racism and whatever, it is a moral need. I explain why here:
https://substack.com/@light235675/note/p-202152292?r=bkpnr&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action
I think we should just teach children. That is honestly it.
Thank you for sharing this. I read the entire piece, and I agree. That’s exactly my point. ☺️
Your story isn’t evidence that giftedness isn’t real. If anything, it illustrates how imperfect identification systems are. In your situation, the problem wasn’t that giftedness didn’t exist as the original article asks. The problem was that a gifted child was missed.
I also agree that every child deserves a safe, engaging education. This has been my soapbox for years, but only so much room in one article for me to discuss. No child should have to earn access to basic educational quality, enrichment, or physical safety through a test score or score alone. That’s a failure of the system that needs to be overhauled.
Where my article differs is that it was focused on the reality of giftedness itself. I was responding to the growing tendency to treat giftedness as privilege, achievement, or opportunity. Your story highlights many of my same points - gifted children can be overlooked, that testing is imperfect, and that many schools fail children who don’t fit neatly into the categories we’ve created.
I don’t see your experience as contradicting my point. I see it as expanding it. A flawed identification system doesn’t mean giftedness isn’t real. It means we need to get better at recognizing it while also ensuring that every child, regardless of label, has access to a quality education.(my pledge to the mayor)
Thank you for sharing your perspective! Your description of what it felt like to be that child was powerful and an important part of the conversation.
Thank you. I see your point and anticipated your criticism. My viewpoint is more so, a catholic system, will help more children. I am agnostic as to whether we can ever truly find all the gifted kids. Some do not mature early. Some children don’t want to try on IQ tests. But if we offer enrichment to more kids, they might suprise us and self select into what they enjoy. I think we should do more of that.
I agree that kids need access to material they enjoy; but I wonder if our gifted system just incentivizes the worst ills.
For example, if you say one child is gifted but another is average; talented teachers often get excited about teaching the gifted kids not the average ones.
The gifted label itself worries me because I think it can become an identity, and when that kid struggles, they can’t overcome it.
What was so special about my catholic education for me, is that they didn’t think I was that special. No one looked at me and thought “wow”. Instead, they educated me, challenged and taught me that hard work was important. That is a wonderful message to teach children.
Anyway, thank you, it is a pleasure to talk to you. I’m flattered that you enjoyed my piece.